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National Disability Institute
Ready and ABLE to Work and Save
Part 2: Technical Assistance Office Hours
Thursday
October 19, 2023
1:30 PM‑3:00 PM EST
	
	[Captioner standing by] 
	 
	[Recording in Progress] 
	
	>> CHEYENNE RIVERS: Welcome, everyone! Thank you for joining us today for our Ready and ABLE to Work and Save Part 2: Technical Assistance Office Hours. 
	My name is Cheyenne. I am the Project Coordinator for ABLE National Resource Center. 
	We are so happy that you are joining us today! 
	A few logistics before we get started: 
	Listening to the webinar: The audio for today's meeting can be accessed using Computer Audio or by calling in by phone. If you collect "Computer Audio", please make sure your speaker are turned on or your headphones are plugged in. 
	If you do not have sound capabilities on your computer or prefer to listen by phone, dial: 1‑929‑205‑6099. The webinar ID is: 849 2904 1023. 
	Captioning: Realtime captioning is provided during this webinar. The captions can be found by clicking on the "closed captions" icon in your Zoom controls at the bottom of the screen. 
	If you do not see the captions after clicking the button, please alert the Host via the chat box. 
	Technical assistance: If you experience technical difficulties, please use the chat box to send a message to the NDI Host, that's me, Cheyenne, or you may e‑mail info@ABLEnrc.org, Subject Line: Webinar Help. 
	Please note, this webinar is being recorded and the materials will be placed on The ABLE National Resource Center website, along with all other ABLE Webinars. 
	And passing it on to Tom Foley, Executive Director of the National Disability Institute. 
	>> THOMAS FOLEY: Thanks so much, Cheyenne. Appreciate it. And welcome, everybody! 
	Again, my name is Thomas Foley. I'm the Executive Director here at the National Disability Institute. Again, we are the first and only national disability organization that works exclusively on issues of financial and economic inclusion. We are also a disability‑led organization. I don't remember if I mentioned that the other day. I'm completely blind so you might hear JAWS in the background every once in a while. 
	But let's get started. Let's go to the next slide. 
	As you all know, October is National Disability Employment Awareness Month, or NDEAM, so we are all gathered today, not only to celebrate NDEAM and all the impact that everyone in this room has had, as I mentioned, Tuesday, really excited to be able to announce that we are the highest level of disability employment in the history of this great country and it's because of you guys and all the work that you do every day, so thank you for that. It's really something to be able to say we're at the highest level ever. It's just really cool. 
	Let's go to the next slide. 
	So, again, we are here today, at Ready and ABLE to Work and Save. Again, this is the second day. Welcome to the Office Hour. And today we're going to talk to some of our featured guests that you saw on Tuesday, but also a couple of new folks and really talk about how ABLE Accounts can support a more robust workforce and how people with disabilities who are working can save and invest in ABLE Accounts. 
	So really appreciate you being here today. 
	So let's go on to our Panelists. Again, we have two Panelists that you saw on Tuesday and two brand new Panelists. 
	First, I would like to invite Kate McSweeney. Kate, welcome back. Why don't you do a brief introduction, if you would?  
	>> KATE McSWEENEY: Thanks, Tom. I'm Kate McSweeney. I'm President and CEO of ACCSES. ACCSES is the National Advocacy Organization based in Washington, D.C. We go back many years. We officially celebrated our 25th anniversary last year, but really we've been around decades longer than that. It has been an exciting seven years that I've been with ACCSES. I have learned so much and I learn more and more every day working with people like you, Tom, and Miranda, and others at NDI and The ABLE National Resource Center. 
	This has been a really great project to work on. I apologize, my phone is ringing in the other room and I can't reach it. 
	I'm here to hear the answers to the questions, just like everybody else. So maybe you want to get to the questions. 
	>> THOMAS FOLEY: [Laughter] Thanks, Kate. 
	Let's go to the next slide and invite Missy onboard. Missy is a Working Center Specialist and a Program Manager with ServiceSource. Welcome back, Missy. 
	>> MISSY CRAWFORD‑SMITH: Hi. That was a great introduction. My name is Missy. I've worked with ServiceSource for about 15 years, a large part of that doing Work Incentive Counseling or Benefits Counseling. Just helping people understand work and benefits and making a path forward. 
	>> THOMAS FOLEY: Excellent. Thanks, Missy. 
	Let's go to the next slide and I'd like to introduce two of my favorite people here at NDI, Marlene and Laurie. Do you guys want to do brief introductions of yourself?  And welcome. 
	>> MARLENE ULISKY: Thanks, Tom. I didn't know I was one of your favorite, but I'm very happy to hear that. 
	My name is Marlene Ulisky. I am located in sunny Sebastian, Florida, halfway between the Space Coast and West Palm Beach. I've worked for the National Disability Institute and The ABLE National Resource Center since about 2016. And prior to that, I worked at Florida Vocational Rehabilitation. And I retired from Social Security after over a 35 year career. 
	I'm certified also as a Work Incentives Counselor, and I'm the proud aunt of a young man who has a disability and he has an ABLE Account. 
	Thanks. 
	>> THOMAS FOLEY: Thanks. 
	>> LAURIE SCHALLER: So this is Laurie Schaller. I work at National Disability Institute and I work on several projects. Prior to coming here, I provided financial education and counseling services. And I am also a Benefits Advisor for those who receive SSI and/or SSDI benefits. And I help people who are interested in employment to find a job and to work to their fullest ability. 
	And I really appreciate this opportunity to answer your questions today. 
	I would like to invite people, to remind you, to use the Q&A at the bottom of your screen to be able to ask your questions today. And we did receive questions Tuesday as well and we'll answer those. 
	Thank you. 
	>> THOMAS FOLEY: Thanks, Laurie. Thanks, Marlene. That was great. 
	So then the Q&A box is open. You know, Kate, Missy, Marlene, and Laurie, okay, I have a challenge for the audience: Ask an ABLE‑related question that stumps this expert panel. 
	>> [Laughter] 
	>> THOMAS FOLEY: Really excited. Because it's National Disability Employment Awareness Month I wanted to start with just a couple of questions that came in over the last couple of days. So if it's all right, Marlene, I'd like to start with you. 
	>> MARLENE ULISKY: Okay. 
	>> THOMAS FOLEY: Can a person who is receiving SSI or SSDI from Social Security be employed?  
	>> MARLENE ULISKY: Okay and that's a great question. We hear that all the time. Folks write in to our ABLEnrc.org box and Laurie primarily mans the box and answers questions and that comes in very, very often. 
	And, yes, no matter what type of a benefit that person receives, whether it's Social Security disability insurance benefits, a benefit as a disabled adult child or Supplemental Security Income benefits they can work. 
	But I know it's confusing sometimes because the definition of "disability" includes the inability to work or inability to engage in substantial, gainful activity, but once you are on the Social Security disability rolls, once you are approved benefits, Social Security offers a wide array of work incentives and employment support programs that allow a person to keep all or part of their monthly payments, along with their Medicare and/or their Medicaid. And that's truly important to help them to continue working. 
	And working, in my opinion, is one of the best ways to financial wellness and planning for a better future and an enhanced quality of life. And working is one of the best ways to save. 
	By working, I just want to throw this in there because many people don't know this, but by working individuals, when the earnings are posted to their Social Security number or their earnings record, it can start to increase their monthly payment a month, their benefit amount, because the computers do what's called re-computations of benefits. That's one of the few ways you can actually increase a Social Security monthly payment over time and it's one of the best ways. 
	Thanks, Tom. 
	>> THOMAS FOLEY: Great, that's awesome. Thanks, Marlene. 
	Laurie, question to you. And, again, it kind of has an NDEAM theme to it. So one of the things we talked about on Tuesday a little bit was, you know, for folks who are working, some of them may qualify to contribute additional dollars to an ABLE Account more than the 17,000 if they're working. Can you tell us a little bit more about that?  
	>> LAURIE SCHALLER: Sure, thanks, Tom. So we know there's a lot of advocacy taking place across this nation really helping people who have a disability. And Congress has heard from us that people who have a disability in many instances are living in poverty. And by working, a person can lift themselves up out of poverty and people who have disabilities who rely on public benefits, including, like, Medicare, Medicaid benefits, in many cases are prohibited from saving money as people who do not have a disability are allowed to do. Particularly when it comes to saving for retirement. 
	So Congress heard us and they passed legislation called The ABLE to Work Act, it was part of a larger bill, and that allows ABLE Account Owner who is work, who do not have contributions made to a retirement account either by themselves or their employer, in that calendar‑year to deposit more monies into their ABLE Account. 
	So each year the annual contribution limit changes. This year it's $17,000. But for the ABLE Account Owner who works, has not had contributions made to a retirement account from their employment earnings, they can contribute up to an additional $13,590 and that's more for people who live in Hawaii and Alaska based upon the cost of living in those states. 
	So that's more than $30,000 that a person can contribute to their ABLE Account if they're working this year. And that can really help them to pay for extra expenses around having a disability. And, like, when I think about work, like, I always had to have a reliable car. We all pay for expenses associated with our working and this allows an ABLE Account Owner to save their employment earnings to help them keep that job. 
	>> THOMAS FOLEY: Wow, that's great, Laurie. 30,000‑plus a year. I think that's more than a lot of other savings and retirement accounts out there. That's amazing. 
	You know, that gets a little bit complicated. If employers had questions about this is there a place that you can recommend they should check out?  
	>> LAURIE SCHALLER: Sure. So at our website ABLEnrc.org, we have an Employer Toolkit and it lists those dollar amounts for this calendar‑year. And we will update that each year as new information becomes available. 
	>> THOMAS FOLEY: That's great. Terrific. 
	Okay, well, those were my two questions. So, Laurie, I'm going to hand it off to you to answer any other questions that are coming in to the Q&A or some of the ones that came in overnight. 
	Over to you. 
	>> LAURIE SCHALLER: Sure, thank you, Tom. 
	So I see a question in from Barbara: Please remind me of the recent or upcoming ABLE age threshold increase from age 26. 
	Marlene, would you like to take that one?  
	>> MARLENE ULISKY: Yes. The ABLE Age Adjustment Act was included in legislation that was passed last year and it was effective January of 2026 where the age is increasing to age 46. 
	>> LAURIE SCHALLER: Great. Okay, thank you, Marlene. 
	>> MARLENE ULISKY: I should add also, too, that allows millions more Americans, including over one million Veterans to become ABLE eligible. And that's huge. 
	>> LAURIE SCHALLER: Great, thanks. 
	We have a question from Lee: If someone takes money out of their ABLE Account for a non‑Qualified Disability Expense or if somehow later they realize it wasn't a Qualified Disability Expense, how is this reviewed by Social Security?  
	So I can address this if you'd like. 
	>> MARLENE ULISKY: Okay. 
	>> LAURIE SCHALLER: So, you know, Qualified Disability Expenses are very broad and QDEs or Qualified Disability Expenses have different categories. But it's also specific to that individual. So, like, a person who has a disability, housing for that individual could include, for example, installing a wheelchair accessible ramp to the home, or putting a lift in. Any type of Assistive Technology that person may need. 
	For another person, maybe going to a daycare program, for them is really going to improve their quality of life. 
	These category are very broad and the determination really of what a Qualified Disability Expense is really left up to the ABLE Account Owner. 
	So, people, if you feel this expense is going to help to improve your quality of life, if it's not clearly defined in the list issued by the IRS, you may want to ask your doctor for a script. 
	So, like, the child who has a disability who wants to go to a day camp program that maybe is not disability‑specific, maybe all the kids in the neighborhood are going to that camp program, but it's really going to improve that child's independence and socialization levels, maybe get a script from the doctor. That can help to support that that was, in fact, a Qualified Disability Expense. 
	So for an ABLE Account Owner who has not invested their ABLE Account savings, if they spent the monies on a non‑Qualified Disability Expense, there is no tax penalty or interest that would be charged because they spent monies on a non‑Qualified Disability Expense. 
	But there is a caution for those who wish to use their monies in their ABLE Accounts to pay for housing expenses. 
	So SSI Regulation, the IRS has made it clear that if a person wishes to use their ABLE Account to pay for housing‑related expenses, they need to take the money out of that ABLE Account, it's best that they pay directly from that ABLE Account for any housing expense, and it be paid for within the same month that those monies were taken out of that ABLE Account. 
	So that is not consider then a countable resource that was held over to the next month. 
	Marlene, would you like to add a couple comments to that?  
	>> MARLENE ULISKY: I agree with everything you said, I just wanted to add that if money is pulled out of the account for something non‑qualified, I just wanted to add that there is a data exchange between the Social Security Administration and the ABLE Plans. So there's shared data. 
	So Social Security may ask a person about those disbursements. So it's very important that disbursements only be used for Qualified Disability Expenses and it's very important as well that receipts be maintained for those expenses, at least for two years. 
	Okay. Laurie, I was going to ask you, before we go on, I was going through the questions and I'm seeing there's a lot of Service Providers on and I think we should maybe give Kate a chance to tell us a little bit herself and then go back to some of the questions. Do you think?  
	>> LAURIE SCHALLER: Perfect, thank you, Marlene. 
	>> KATE McSWEENEY: Well, I'm always happy to talk about ACCSES and what we do at ACCSES. We are, as I said, a National Advocacy Organization. One of the reasons it has been such a joy working with The ABLE National Resource Center and joined by the AbilityOne Commission is because it's so important to put information about ABLE out there to providers. And Missy is going to talk a little bit more about the work she does with ServiceSource. 
	ACCSES is a member‑based organization. Our members are Disability Service Providers from across the country. It's been my honor to work to support them over the last seven years. 
	We do advocacy at the Federal level, in Congress, at the Agency level, we have a lot of different issues that we focus on. One of them is with respect to SSI and the asset limit that really limits how much the assets an individual is receiving on SSI can have in terms of volume ‑‑ or dollar amount, rather. 
	And really, what is an earned income penalty with SSI that as you earn any amount over a certain number, a very low number, they take back 50 cents on the dollar. So SSI is a little bit tricky when you're working and that's something that we run into that actually does impact how much people can work and their concerns about it, their fears about losing benefits. That's a very legitimate thing. 
	But we work on a wide varieties of issues on ACCSES. We're focusing on things like Dementia care for people with intellectual disabilities. Residential issues, home and community‑based services, the list is pretty long. 
	And it has been exciting. I mean, I said earlier before we went live that yesterday I was really pleased to lead a panel discussion on artificial intelligence and disability for the United Cerebral Palsy Conference for Latinos and it was successful. It was great. 
	There's so many things happening this field that every day is really exciting and offers a lot of new things. 
	And this year because we had this privilege to work with NDI, we just want to say again thank you for that. And we are looking forward to things we can do together in 2024. 
	>> LAURIE SCHALLER: Thank you, Kate. You know, you provided a nice segue mentioning Benefits Counseling, Benefits Advisement Services, maybe we can introduce Missy and ask a couple questions that came in Tuesday of Missy. 
	Are you with us, Missy?  
	>> MISSY CRAWFORD‑SMITH: I'm there. Hi! Or here. [Laughter] 
	>> LAURIE SCHALLER: So as a Benefits Counselor at ServiceSource is there a specific age where you recommend that a person who has a disability reach out to someone in your capacity?  
	>> MISSY CRAWFORD‑SMITH: I tend to work a lot with people who are looking to go to work, so, you know, it could be anybody from age, you know, 15‑16 up to, you know, 70. [Laughter] Really anybody who is looking at work or working I serve. 
	>> LAURIE SCHALLER: Great. And, Missy, when you talk about benefits, are we talking just about SSI or SSDI or are you talking about more benefits?  
	>> MISSY CRAWFORD‑SMITH: I think a lot of our conversations always focus around Social Security because it is a big cash benefit that people are receiving, but it could be other benefits as well; Medicaid, Medicare, Medicare waiver, some stuff with housing or Food Stamps or SNAP. I'm certified to do Social Security benefit counseling and that's the big cash benefit, so that's where a lot of the questions tend to come from, but it could be other benefits as well. 
	>> LAURIE SCHALLER: That's great. So you mean like when a person begins to work you'll let them know, like, if they're concerned that they might lose like SNAP benefits or if they're getting help paying their rent through HUD, those sort of things, too?  
	>> MISSY CRAWFORD‑SMITH: Yes, we try to cover all of the benefits for the person, try to get them all of the information in one place. Yeah. 
	>> LAURIE SCHALLER: Great. Okay. And then, Missy, do your employees ever ask for help to open an ABLE Account?  
	>> MISSY CRAWFORD‑SMITH: I don't know if it's because our State ABLE Account is so easy to open up, but I refer them there and they just seem to be able to go through it pretty well. So a lot of the people I work with haven't really had issues opening an ABLE Account. It seems to be a very simple process, so I haven't had to do a lot of one‑on‑one help. I have done that for people, but, you know, the majority of people that I work with seem to kind of get through pretty easily. 
	It's a credit to you all and making an easy to use website. 
	>> LAURIE SCHALLER: Oh, wonderful! So you direct them to ABLE National Resource Center?  
	>> MISSY CRAWFORD‑SMITH: Most people I do direct to ABLE National Resource Center or I also will include our own State's ABLE Account. 
	>> LAURIE SCHALLER: Okay, great. 
	>> MISSY CRAWFORD‑SMITH: Which is ABLE Now. 
	>> LAURIE SCHALLER: That's great. Thank you, Missy. 
	>> MISSY CRAWFORD‑SMITH: You're welcome. 
	>> LAURIE SCHALLER: We have another question that came in today. So from Sarah: When looking at the list of what ABLE funds may be used to pay for, do all QDEs need to relate to all of the qualifiers?  For example, relate to that person's disability blindness or be the benefit of that beneficiary or relate to maintaining/improving health, independence, and quality of life?  
	So Marlene, do you want to take this one?  
	>> MARLENE ULISKY: Okay, Laurie, you're going to put me on the spot. 
	>> [Laughter] 
	>> MARLENE ULISKY: Yeah, it does have to meet all of the qualifiers. It has to relate to a person's disability or their blindness, or be for the benefit of that person. And for the benefit of that person it could be something like an individual does not drive a vehicle, but they want a vehicle to get to and from work, but they're parents or someone living in the household will be driving that vehicle for them to and from work. Or the whole family may be going on an outing or a social event. It still meets that criteria, it just has to relate to also maintaining or improving the health, independence, and quality of life for that person. 
	Now the IRS provided broad categories of Qualified Disability Expenses and they're so broad that even food and shelter expenses fit into those categories. So almost anything falls into those categories. And I'm saying "almost anything", but that's where each person, they're different and each disability is different. So you almost have to make a judgment call on whether or not there is a connection between that definition and the Qualified Disability Expense. And if you make that connection, then just save those receipts, maintain documentation for that expense. 
	If it's something really that you think may be a little out there, keep the documentation there just in case it's asked for somewhere down the road. 
	>> LAURIE SCHALLER: Right. Thanks, Marlene. 
	>> MARLENE ULISKY: You're welcome. 
	>> LAURIE SCHALLER: And then we've got a question from James. He is talking about a 329 College Savings Plan and there's more than $17,000 in that account. So how can all of that money be deposited into an ABLE Account?  
	Would you like to take that, Marlene?  
	>> MARLENE ULISKY: Okay, yes. And we know, as Tom mentioned a little bit earlier, there is an annual contribution limit and this year it's $17,000. So if someone has ‑‑ let's just say, for example, $34,000 in their College savings account and College isn't in their future, the person does not want to attend College, that money can be rolled over into the ABLE Account, but it's only up to the annual contribution limit. 
	So that means of the $34,000, half of that, or $17,000, could be rolled over this year and half may be rolled over next year. 
	However, if there were other contributions into the ABLE Account this year, let's just say the person with the disability was working and they contributed $10,000 into that account, that would mean that only $7,000 from that 529 College Savings Account could be rolled over this year. 
	So if someone does have a 529 College Savings Account and there's a lot of funds in there, it may take multiple‑years to roll that money over into the ABLE Account. 
	>> LAURIE SCHALLER: Great. Thanks, Marlene. 
	>> MARLENE ULISKY: You're welcome. 
	>> LAURIE SCHALLER: The person is also asking, so if the person lives in one of the four states that does not offer their own ABLE Account, can a person select another State's ABLE Account?  
	Yes. And we have on our website, The ABLE National Resource Center, ABLEnrc.org, Comparison Tool. So you can go to "Get Started", and you can click on the buttons and compare different ABLE plans to see what ABLE Plan you think best meets your needs. 
	So what's different from ABLE Plan to able plan?  Well, some ABLE Plans have lower fees. Maybe they have a special provision to help, like, a Representative Payee organization that may have 20 clients that they want to open ABLE Accounts for. Maybe they've made that easier for that Representative Payee organization to open the account, see all 20 individuals' information and deposit money as appropriately and to help those ABLE Account Owners learn to manage their monies and their benefits that are saved within that ABLE Account. 
	So there are lots of options. Sometimes looking at your home state, if they offer that ABLE Account, is maybe with incentives. There may be incentives, for example, that the monthly fees are reduced, or, maybe at the State level there's a State tax deduction for funds deposited into an ABLE Account. 
	Okay, next question from Lorraine: Do you think that eventually a percentage or dollar amount of the paycheck withdrawals that go directly into the ABLE Account might not be counted as income, kind of like a subsidy?  
	Marlene, you look ready for this one. 
	>> MARLENE ULISKY: Oh, that's really a great question and it's a great point that we've talked about and we wanted to bring out in this webinar. And it's the fact that income always counts the same for public benefits the way it has in the past. There's no change, even though someone may have an ABLE Account and deposit that income into the ABLE Account. Just to make that point. 
	I wish that the Government Programs would exclude money going into the ABLE Account as income, but I don't see that happening unless there's legislation passed. So I think you would need to contact your Legislators and encourage them to support a bill that provides for something like that. 
	Do you think, Laurie?  
	>> LAURIE SCHALLER: Yeah, that's very good, Marlene. So where that ABLE Account really makes a big difference for people is maybe a person's SSI isn't enough to cover their rent and in the past, like, a family wanted to help that SSI beneficiary pay their rent, the SSI would be reduced. 
	So now a family can deposit monies directly into an ABLE Account that the SSI beneficiary who has an ABLE Account can then use those contributions to pay for their rent or to purchase a home or to pay for property taxes, what that person needs. 
	And it's really helped to level the playing field so that people who have a benefit don't simply need to spend down money that otherwise they really wanted to save and they need it for things like emergencies that others, who do not have a benefit, are allowed to save for. So it's a game‑changer really for a person who has an ABLE Account. 
	>> MARLENE ULISKY: Mm‑hmm. 
	>> LAURIE SCHALLER: Are you okay, Marlene?  
	>> MARLENE ULISKY: Yeah, I agree with that. I wanted to say though Angela is asking a similar question and she is asking: Can someone who does not meet Social Security's standards of disabled or definition of disability use an ABLE Account in order to keep their Medicaid once they start working?  
	And I think we answered that, that income still counts the same as it does whether it's deposited into an ABLE Account or not deposited into an ABLE Account. 
	But that question brings up something else that's important. It seems like everything is just so important and there's just so much to know with this. And if you're listening to this now and thinking, oh, my gosh, I'm never going to get this, or, that's too much information. You will, you'll get it, it's just a building process. You know, it's hearing one time, two times, hearing it again, and then one day, like even Laurie and I do it now, something sinks in, you think about it, you think you don't understand it, and then one day it all just kind of fits together. 
	But with that question, if someone does not meet the Social Security definition of disability, do you know they could still be ABLE eligible?  Because that definition of disability, there's two definitions of disability. There's a definition for what's called children under the age of 18 and there's an adult definition of disability for those 18 and over. 
	And the ABLE regulations use the childhood definition of disability. So let's say you're a child, and yesterday we were listening to a webinar that Tom spoke so eloquently on, he spoke about transition youth and using an ABLE Account, and they were talking about age 18 re‑determinations when a youth is receiving an SSI payment and Social Security reviews them at age 18 to see if they're still eligible for those payments. 
	What happens if Social Security says, nope, you don't meet that definition of disability as an adult?  
	And what happens is the person may still be ABLE eligible, so long as they still meet that childhood definition of disability because in the childhood definition there isn't a work connection and it's a little more stringent. So even though someone isn't receiving a disability benefit based upon the adult standard of disability, that does not mean that they're not disabled. 
	I hope that's clear. 
	>> LAURIE SCHALLER: Yeah, we find often that people, you know, they recognize that they have a disability, their doctor has told them that, but for whatever reason, often because they are able to work, they may not receive SSI and/or SSDI before age 26. 
	So people go to their doctor, ask the doctor to sign a Disability Certification indicating that they have a disability that began before age 26 and they hold that on file should, like, Social Security or the ABLE Plan ask for some sort of proof they have a disability, they have that available to share should they be asked. 
	And a lot of people, you know, are opening an ABLE Account because of that feature. It's a safe place to save money. The monies can be invested. And the investment income is not countable income and it's not taxable when those monies are spent on a Qualified Disability Expense. 
	So that was a really great question. Thank you so much. 
	And then we have a question: Does having an ABLE Account affect a person who receives an SNAP or health food benefits?  
	So we have Federal guidance posted on our website at ABLEnrc.org and you can see what SNAP has to say, that any amount of savings is not a countable resource for SNAP. Any amount of savings is not countable for HUD. Any kind of Medicare or Medicaid does not count ABLE savings as a resource. All of those resources posted under Federal guidance, including the IRS and Social Security Administration's perspective of ABLE Accounts as well. 
	And we have another question here: In order to use an ABLE Account to relieve a Medicaid spend‑down, would an individual simply need to make their spend‑down payment to their ABLE Account?  
	Oh, okay, that's an interesting question. So if I could take this one, Marlene. So we meet lots of people, right?  They're struggling to have their scripts and medical services paid by Medicaid. And because their income is higher, they may have a spend‑down. 
	Well, many states across the United States offer a program called Medicaid Buy‑in. And when is person works, sometimes for just even a few hours a month, they may become eligible for Medicaid Buy‑in that allows them a greater level of earned income, including income that they don't work and earn, right?  And have greater savings and still be eligible for Medicaid and not need to do that spent‑down. 
	So to call a Benefit Advisor, someone like Missy, and ask, you know, if I start to work, could I still be eligible for Medicaid?  Would I still need to do that spent‑down to be able to access my Medicaid services?  That's a great opportunity for that person to begin working and experience greater income and everything that comes with that. In many cases people are shocked how their lives improve. 
	Marlene, do you want to add something?  
	>> MARLENE ULISKY: I think you did a fine job, Laurie. 
	>> LAURIE SCHALLER: Great. All right. 
	And then we've got the next question here: Can you use an ABLE Account to offset earned income in an ability to continue receiving SSI?  
	So, no because an ABLE Account doesn't reduce countable employment earnings, but, again, talk to your Benefits Counselor. So, Missy, what can help a person who wants to work and receives SSI and they want to continue receiving SSI?  Can you help us with that?  
	>> MISSY CRAWFORD‑SMITH: Yeah. If someone were to come to me and they were getting SSI, when we look at the work earnings, Social Security, first off, is going to look at gross earnings, but, you know, we're going to investigate other work incentives that are available. 
	So we look at the gross earnings, but they also consider disability‑related work expenses the person may be paying. Blind work expenses. Whether they're a student, under a certain age. There are a lot of work incentives that you would want to investigate to see, you know, are these kind of like "write‑offs", but are these expenses something I can turn into Social Security and it will help them keep more of their pay from Social Security. 
	>> LAURIE SCHALLER: Great. Okay, thank you, Missy. 
	Can you explain a bit about the record‑keeping requirements for Qualified Disability Expenses?  
	Marlene, do you want to take that one?  
	>> MARLENE ULISKY: Yeah, that's fine. The record‑keeping requirements for Qualified Disability Expenses, they would be similar to any other IRS record‑keeping requirement. You maintain receipts for certain expenses you write off on your tax return. So if you are using your ABLE Account for Qualified Disability Expenses, let's say you pay your rent and you write a check, maintain the checks. You could maintain paper copies. Throw them in a shoe box if that's what you like to do. But if you use a computer, you could save things, you could scan things and save them electronically. 
	The important thing is you just save the receipts. And it's really, really important, too, we were talking a little earlier about Representative Payees and benefits being used for a person's expenses or being deposited into an ABLE Account and being used for expenses, Social Security asks for records sometimes for those expenditures. Large Representative Payees are actually reviewed by Social Security. In fact, I used to review the large organizational Representative Payees and I would want to see receipts for every expenditure over the last year. 
	So it's just important that anyone, whether it's an individual with a disability, if it's a parent maintaining their child's ABLE Account, or whether it's an individual payee or an organizational payee, it's just really important they save their receipts, they maintain them in whatever way they feel is best for them. 
	>> LAURIE SCHALLER: Great. 
	And if I could just add to that, too, many of the ABLE plans, you know, they provide monthly statements and that may help to support those receipts that you've kept, too, of when things were purchased and when the monies were taken out of that ABLE Account and that can help to support how you're using your ABLE Account. 
	>> MARLENE ULISKY: Can I add something, Laurie?  I think and you may know more about this or you may have seen it, but I thought some of the ABLE Plans offer a tool so that these receipts can be maintained. So check with your ABLE Plan to see if they have a tool you can use. 
	>> LAURIE SCHALLER: Great. 
	Someone is asking: So if someone is working to their fullest ability, but they really can't work, you know, eight hours each day or a full week, can family help them out by depositing money directly into that ABLE Account?  
	Yes, certainly. 
	And Jer has asked a question here: For Savers Credit, at the end of tax year 2023, I understand the calculation is money saved minus expenses paid out gives you a net amount saved. This amount only reduces the taxes you must pay for the state, however, get this credit back as money in your pocket. Correct?  
	So this is a great question to ask a tax preparer. So money saved in an ABLE Account, deposited from employment earnings, may qualify a person for Savers Credit which could reduce the taxes which that person needs to pay for their employment earnings that calendar‑year. 
	But this has opened up my important message to everyone. [Laughter] 
	If a person receives SSI and/or SSDI benefits and they work, it is important that they go to a tax preparer and have their taxes calculated and maybe they don't even have to report it, but by reporting that income, filing taxes, you may get a large refund you didn't even realize you are eligible for. Something like the Earned Income Tax Credit. And it helps to open up a line of communication between Social Security Administration and the IRS that you are working and potentially earning quarters of coverage so that like maybe now you have a limited work history, you are receiving SSI, but after working a short period of time, you may become eligible for SSID, too, or maybe just SSDI. 
	And in the future, also become eligible for Medicare and retirement benefits. 
	It's so important and I'm meeting Case Managers that I didn't needed to tell my clients this information. I'm meeting employers who I think have been afraid to tell their employees to file income taxes. It is so important. It can be mean financial stability and security for a person later on in their life in retirement. 
	Go ahead, Marlene. 
	>> MARLENE ULISKY: I'm sorry, Laurie, go ahead. 
	>> LAURIE SCHALLER: Go ahead. 
	>> MARLENE ULISKY: I was just going to add, too, when you were talking about taxes, it's important for everyone to file their tax returns, but it's particularly important for individuals who are self‑employed to file their tax returns. Because if you receive a W2, your employer provides one copy to Social Security and it shows up on your earnings record, but it's important to file your taxes because you may get an Earned Income Tax Credit back, money back. 
	But for self‑employment, that doesn't post to your earnings record unless you file a tax return. If you file a tax return, there's an exchange of data between the IRS and Social Security. So it's critical if you want credit for that and you are trying to bump up your benefit to increase your monthly payment amount, to file those tax returns. 
	Sorry, Laurie. 
	>> LAURIE SCHALLER: Thank you, Marlene. 
	So we've got a question about quality of life. When I'm talking about quality of life, I'm thinking being more active in my community, reducing my stress level because I've been able to save money to address whatever emergency might come down the pike. Being able to afford transportation to where I need to be. 
	What is quality of life for you, Marlene?  
	>> MARLENE ULISKY: It's the same thing. For me it's taking classes and enhancing my lifestyle. It is purchasing items or services that make me happy, that enhances my quality of life. 
	>> LAURIE SCHALLER: Right. So really it's different for each of us given where we are at a particular point in time. 
	We have another question here: Is there another way for a person with a disability to save for retirement since only one ABLE Account is permitted per person?  
	So people need to reach out if they have a disability and receive SSI and/or SSDI and Medicaid and Medicare and ask that Benefits Advisor, if I were to save in my employer's retirement account that is being offered to me, or, I really want to save in a Roth IRA, could that impact my benefits in some way?  And they will be able to tell you that answer. 
	We know that ABLE savings is not a countable resource for any type of Medicaid, Medicare, any type of Social Security disability insurance. A person who receives SSI is the ABLE Account Owner would is needs to limit their ABLE savings up to $100,000 is not counted towards the SSI resource limit. 
	>> MARLENE ULISKY: And Laurie, I think we only have eight minutes left. 
	>> LAURIE SCHALLER: Okay. 
	>> MARLENE ULISKY: Do we have time for any more questions or?  
	>> LAURIE SCHALLER: Let's ask one more. 
	Our child has an ABLE Account ‑‑ oh, okay. So a person is asking about the information posted on our website, and I saw this come in earlier today. This is interesting. 
	So if you go to ABLEnrc.org you can compare the different ABLE plans. Where does that information come from?  Each of the ABLE Plans are invited periodically to provide us information that is posted on our website so people can compare one ABLE Plan to another.
	And our information is independent. We think that's very important to people. The ABLE Plans have also been informed that they're allowed, and we encourage them, to give us updates as they occur. 
	One important document that every ABLE Plan has provided a link to in our comparison tools, whether it's more details than what we post on our website is the Disclosure Statement for each ABLE Plan. And some of those documents are hundreds of pages long. So we welcome you to reach out to the ABLE Plan and ask your question, is this information correct?  I'm not understanding what's in your Disclosure Statement. What would that mean for me?  
	If you're concerned about benefits, you can reach out to us. If you're working, if you are interested in employment, or interested in education that will lead to employment, you can reach out to a Benefits Advisor and they can help to answer concerns that you may have. 
	>> MARLENE ULISKY: Laurie, could I put one more thing out there?  Just fast a one or two liner. There's a couple questions I scanned about Qualified Disability Expenses and people are asking, like, legal marijuana, which differs by state to state, they're asking about vacations, where they are a QDE, and the advice we give anyone at The ABLE National Resource Center, if you are unsure of something and you think it is what we call a gray area, we encourage you to use other than ABLE funds for that purchase, just so that you're safe and there are no issues if you are using a benefit. 
	>> LAURIE SCHALLER: Great. 
	>> MARLENE ULISKY: I turn it back to you, Laurie. 
	>> LAURIE SCHALLER: Let's turn it over to Tom to help us to the end. 
	>> THOMAS FOLEY: Thanks so much, Laurie. Okay, gosh, that was great. Those were lots of great questions and lots of great information. 
	I hope everybody is ready for the final exam. 
	>> [Laughter] 
	>> THOMAS FOLEY: Just kidding. Sorry. 
	Cheyenne, let's go to the next slide. 
	So I'm just going to run through some strategies and some recommendations and some of ‑‑ most of these slides you saw on Tuesday, but let's go to the next slide, the opportunities to share information. 
	So just a reminder, we have lots of tools on the website for employers. Oops, sorry, I'm ahead of myself. 
	So sometimes you might be able to surface the idea of ABLE Accounts to people: 
	When providing information to the Employee Resource Group. 
	When information is being provided to the entire workforce at one time. 
	Some other suggestions there as well. 
	For Service Providers, I think Marlene mentioned there are a lot of Service Providers in the room, so obviously, during benefit counseling sessions, let's talk about ABLE Accounts. 
	During periodic wellness checks. 
	You know, during checks during critical times, during performance, if somebody gets a promotion or something like that. 
	Or putting together an Individual Work Plan for Ticket To Work. Something like that. Lots of opportunities to be able to mention ABLE Accounts. 
	Let's go to the next slide. 
	Again, options to be able to ‑‑ that employers can offer. 
	Options to open an ABLE Account. 
	Make contributions to it from the person's earnings thanks would be a taxable event. 
	But, also, you know, allow the ABLE Account Owner to be able to direct a portion of their wages to it. 
	Lots of other good ideas there as well. 
	Let's go to the next slide. 
	Let's talk about a couple more resources. 
	Let's go to the Toolkit slide. Next slide. 
	Again, available from download from ABLEnrc.org, we have an Employer Toolkit, it gives you lots of different tools to introduce ABLE Accounts to folks N at the work environment. 
	There's an ABLE Service Provider Toolkit, again, lots of Service Providers in the room so please check out that as well. 
	Next slide, Cheyenne. 
	Lots of ABLE success stories. If you are looking to see how this is changing real people's lives, check out some of our ABLE Ambassadors at ABLE NRC. They are ABLE Account Owners and family members just sort of talking about how it’s impacted their life. 
	Let's go to the Decision Guide slide, Cheyenne. Next slide. 
	Again, we talked about this is a lot on Tuesday, if you have any questions about ABLE, there is this collection of ABLE Decision Guides at ABLEnrc.org. 
	Hopefully it provides a roadmap for to you to make a decision about particular aspects of ABLE and please share them with your friends and family. They're great tools that we'd like to get out into the community. 
	Let's go to the next slide. 
	Again ABLEnrc.org, we have comparison tools that a number of people have talked about today. Find the right ABLE for you or your employees, or at least give them the tools so they can do it on their own. 
	There are ABLE FAQs. 
	There are podcasts. 
	There's webinars like this one that will be put up there. 
	There's our AchievABLE Newsletter that you can sign up for as well. 
	Let's go to the next slide. 
	This is a one‑pager. You can hold your phone up to the QR Code and download it directly for information about ABLE and to share with your friends and family. 
	Please, next slide, let's help spread the word. You know, put it out on social media, put it out on Twitter, put it out on Instagram, anywhere you can. As a friend of mine likes to say: ABLE is still one of the best kept secrets out there for people to put financial resources together for themselves. 
	Please connect with us on social media. As well, we're on Twitter and a number of different platforms. 
	Let's bring everyone back, Kate and Missy and Marlene and Laurie. First, thanks to our funders JP Morgan Chase and Prudential. But thanks to the four of you for such an informational, wonderful panel today. 
	I learned a lot more about ABLE than I knew previously, so thank you to all four of you. 
	But more importantly, thank you for what you do every day for people with disabilities. 
	And thank you to everyone who showed up today. Thanks for what you do for people with disabilities in employment and building a better financial future for people with disabilities, for their families, and for the country. 
	Really appreciate everyone being here today. Thank you for attending. If you have any questions, please feel free to follow‑up. Thank you for what you do. It's been a pleasure to be here today. Thanks. 
	>> KATE McSWEENEY: Thanks, Tom. 
	
	[Webinar concluded] 
	
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